I find David's analysis really concerning. I am a man living in Australia. My experience is that all of the systems of our society are still tilted significantly in my favour as a man. I think David doesn't sufficiently acknowledge the still huge structural power imbalance and that very large positive discrimination is (still) required to shift the situation to achieve equality.
My experience is that women still earn less than men in most industries and are overrepresented in lower paying industries, are more likely to be killed or injured by partners than men and are expected to do more unpaid labour than men and retire with less savings. They pay more for services and are exposed to hugely negative gender expectations and stereotypes. Education is possibly the one area where women are closer to being equal but it is unusual. I think we need positive models of masculinity that acknowledge how far as societies we still need to come so that young men understand both how they can contribute positively and why positive discrimination is still required in our societies without men thinking that we are martyrs.
To be clear, women are far ahead in education and have been for four decades.
Yes, women are more likely to be killed or injured by domestic violence, but men are more likely to be killed or injured at work, in the armed forces, etc.
And of course, although women do more housework, households do pool resources so the net outcome is that men, on average, give more money to women within their household than vice versa.
I think much of the debate on gender misses the fact that the genders are not the same - that biology leads us both to specialise in certain jobs and household activities - but that we create institutions as best we can to ensure fairness overall, not on every particular sub-issue.
Yes today, it would be good to hear where you think things stand. Not on what is said but done in Australia today. Just a sense of course - data not required
I find David's analysis really concerning. I am a man living in Australia. My experience is that all of the systems of our society are still tilted significantly in my favour as a man. I think David doesn't sufficiently acknowledge the still huge structural power imbalance and that very large positive discrimination is (still) required to shift the situation to achieve equality.
Interesting to hear this. What examples do you have in mind?
My experience is that women still earn less than men in most industries and are overrepresented in lower paying industries, are more likely to be killed or injured by partners than men and are expected to do more unpaid labour than men and retire with less savings. They pay more for services and are exposed to hugely negative gender expectations and stereotypes. Education is possibly the one area where women are closer to being equal but it is unusual. I think we need positive models of masculinity that acknowledge how far as societies we still need to come so that young men understand both how they can contribute positively and why positive discrimination is still required in our societies without men thinking that we are martyrs.
Oh, I see.
To be clear, women are far ahead in education and have been for four decades.
Yes, women are more likely to be killed or injured by domestic violence, but men are more likely to be killed or injured at work, in the armed forces, etc.
And of course, although women do more housework, households do pool resources so the net outcome is that men, on average, give more money to women within their household than vice versa.
I think much of the debate on gender misses the fact that the genders are not the same - that biology leads us both to specialise in certain jobs and household activities - but that we create institutions as best we can to ensure fairness overall, not on every particular sub-issue.
Do you think taken as an overall social analysis (if such a thing could exist) that men or women are "more equal"?
You mean in 2025 compare to say, the 1990s?
Yes today, it would be good to hear where you think things stand. Not on what is said but done in Australia today. Just a sense of course - data not required
Positive, positive, positive!
Fantastic conversation, which features honest and bold contributions. Thank you Cameron.